Mark Geoghegan
Bill, welcome to the Voice of Insurance.
Bill O’Farrell
Thanks, mark. Pleasure to be here.
Mark Geoghegan
For anyone who doesn't know you, why don't you introduce yourself and run us through your career to date and how you got to the the position you're in now?
Bill O’Farrell
OK, Mark, I'm currently the CEO of Premia Holdings Limited, which is a global insurance and reinsurance group focused on the legacy market. . I was employee number one, co-founder and CEO of Premier since 2017.
Prior to that I joined ARCH in 2016 as Executive Vice President, essentially to set up Premia and then before that I was at Chubb, formerly ACE, where I was the Chief Reinsurance Officer for roughly 13 years and it was a great time to be at ACE Chubb, We went from an $8 billion company when I joined to a $65 billion company when I left, so a lot going on.
You were originally at the legacy Ace part of Chubb.
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, that's right. Right. I joined in ‘03 when the company was $8 billion and had reinsurance recoverable of $14 billion and that was my first role essentially was to address that.
Mark Geoghegan
So a huge journey to have gone through because of course at 2003 you'd still Ace was still, I suppose, digesting some of its huge, the large acquisitions that had made was probably probably just over digesting them by then. But and that was an amazing, amazing company to be in and to have stayed all that time as well.
Bill O’Farrell
Oh, it was fantastic. Yeah, I really, really welcome the opportunity I was, I think Evan Greenberg's first global hire in in 03, and it was, it was a great place to work. Loved it.
Mark Geoghegan
And so, of course you were in on the ground. Let's go back.
Bill O’Farrell
Prior to that, I was at Berkshire Hathaway, originally in Omaha, NE. And then I moved out to Stamford, CT in 1994 to work for Ajit Jain and worked on a lot of legacy transactions and ran a bunch of the deals that they did in that space from. Basically 94 to 03.
Mark Geoghegan
Wow. I mean, that's quite the resume. So when you're in Omaha, was that within that tiny office, this legendary office of 17 people or something?
Bill O’Farrell
No, I was actually across the street in National Indemnity’s building. But yeah, I've been in that office. It is a very tiny office. The conference room is about the size of most people's desks, it's amazingly tight.
Mark Geoghegan
I'm sure you developed a taste for Cherry Coke while you while. You were there!
So you were in on the ground floor with Premia, so you really you founded this business and give us a quick run through of where premiums got to in that time?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah. So we started out as a a single, our flagship in Bermuda. That's where we base the business. We've then added platforms in the US.
The UK, we have a London market managing agency, sorry, a Lloyd's managing agency and a London market company. And then we also have added a European business that's based in Antwerp. So we have, you know, platforms in the United States, in Bermuda, in the UK.
In Europe, that allows us to write risk and all the sort of key jurisdictions, which is.
Important to us in our risk transfer business and we added a complementary business to that in 2018 where we bought Alan Grey, which is a fee for service provider and complements our business serves third parties. It's a 36 year old business..
We've added some bolt on acquisitions to Alan Grey over that time, so today we have roughly 250 people, about half that's in our service business. The other half's in our risk business and we have about $850 million of Capital plus our side car that we put on in 2020, which is roughly, gets us to about a billion dollars in capital.
Mark Geoghegan
That's a really good rundown. So in terms of that that platform building, it seems like you've kind of got all the tools in the set or so. Would we be right to assume that you kind of have got all the tools that you need there that we wouldn't expect to see you opening up new platforms?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, I think I think we do. the way we think about it is we take on risk in any form. So if it's insurance, reinsurance or acquisition.
And so if that legacy deal is in acquisition form, we may add another company, but we have the platform we need today.
Bill O’Farrell
And sellers like to use Premia because we have a great record of getting approval for acquisitions. So they know when they do a deal with us that it's going to get through the regulatory authorities and be approved. And so you know the execution risk drops when they do a deal from you.
Mark Geoghegan
Well, let's talk about the market. Where are you seeing the most opportunities right now?
Bill O’Farrell
The market largely would follow where the large developed insurance markets are. So the United States continues to be the number one market for us. Long tail casualty business in the US is obviously a point of of conversation and of interest to us and where we do a lot of our transactions
I would also add the structure of Lloyds with reinsurance to close. It makes it an important market for us and those are the two places I think we do most of our transactions. And then in Bermuda you often you often get Bermuda to Bermuda deals but they are based on largely US exposures.
Mark Geoghegan
So yes, casualty is definitely where it's at. And of course, it's where it's at in the live market as well where the most points of debate are and of course, we're probably before this market hardening base starts in about 2019. We saw a lot of a lot of smart underwriters, just did a lot of legacy deals actually around then didn't they?
Clear the decks and free their capital up to make the most of what they thought was going to be an improving live market.
At the moment the live markets and I've just I've just done a podcast about down at Monte Carlo at the reinsurance rendezvous, a lot of uncertainty, probably more uncertainty than has been for a really long time around the US casualty market.
They've had, you know, a lot of those live players have had deterioration on some of those back years from from the teens, from 14 to 19.
What's your view on it? You know, you're an expert in all this. You know all about deteriorating casualty years.
Bill O’Farrell
Well, we definitely see a lot of portfolios in that period of time and I don't think there's much debate that those years have really underperformed what people thought they would be when they were originally written. And I know that's a bit of a generalisation and there probably are companies that specifically are doing better than that.
But I think as the generalisation, I think that certainly holds true, that those years have underperformed, and I think would also happen a bit is that during you went into the pandemic.
It also masked a little bit of how those years were performing, because you had courts closed and it was difficult to see actually the performance. But I think now that we're sort of five years past that block, you've referenced that you know that that certainly is underperforming and and
Many companies have taken different approaches. Some have reacted quickly to the data and have changed their reserves and their go forward pricing.
Others haven't adjusted as well, so the market is still as you would expect. You know, there are people doing better than others, but I think as a general rule that that time period is pretty across the board underperforming.
Mark Geoghegan
So when you look at when you see that does that is that music to your ears is that good news for you Bill? or do you think ‘ohh you know what? I should be cautious as well.’ Obviously my job is to remove some of this these problem years but you know if you see a year that is problematic do you do you want to run away from it or do you want to you want to be able to take it on?
Is it always reinsurance from a legacy perspective?
Bill O’Farrell
I think it is. It's important that people address those years with wide open eyes and see what's developing in that. And I think there's a bit of a still a Bid-Ask split on those years, right?
And certainly in 2023, the legacy market was down in the number of transactions done. I think some of that was related to the market having a different view on those years in particular. And so now another year has gone by and other cards flipped over. People have a better understanding of that and I think that Bid-Ask spread is narrowing a bit. So we're happy to look at those years. We do a lot of transactions involving those years, but you know it always has to be priced accordingly.
Mark Geoghegan
So you've got to make sure you get your buffer so you can make your return. You're not a charity. You're not coming in to take away their problems without charging for it.
Bill O’Farrell
No, a fair price for the risk is what we try to do.
Mark Geoghegan
There was a point, certainly in some of the in that time when some of the more astute and more nimble underwriters live, underwriters were kind of steadying well, clearing the decks. I would say in ready for a harder a harder market, there was a point at which some of those deals.
There weren't actually very seasoned years. They were actually kind of putting to legacy some of these not-mature years. And that was something that the legacy market seemed to be OK with.
And there was almost a moment there where I was thinking, well, how close to live could legacy be getting? Where would you think we are at the moment in terms of that maturity factor? There was certainly a time when more progressive legacy players were almost almost live and they could almost be like ‘if you've written it, yeah, I could take it off your hands now.’
Mark Geoghegan
I mean, I'm probably putting words into your mouth, but how mature does business have to be now for legacy to have an appetite to look at it?
Bill O’Farrell
Well, I think it's always helpful if there is some good history that allows you to price it. But we definitely see deals that are fairly recent. And I think though in today's market that's probably less troublesome than it was in 19. You know that where it was a pretty underpriced market and it and it has developed that way.I think today most companies, if they're doing something that involves 2023 or 2022, you know there has been some, some decent rate change and you know we're able to see that in the data and so it's less troubling to us if it's more current on the on the casualty.
But yeah, in those back years, it's an old story of the insurance industry. There were too many valuing growth over underwriting discipline and a lot of our legacy market competitors got into some issues jumping on those deals where they were highly focused on growth.
And unfortunately from my vantage point, that was pretty foreseeable. But you know the market is a long feedback loop on the casualty space and so it takes competitors and others a while to recognise that, and so that underpricing went on for a while before I think it's become more market discipline.
Mark Geoghegan
Well, I should have had you on the podcast then, but I suppose actually the podcast didn't quite exist then. I remember writing in that 2014 to 2019 period, we were probably writing more about this being everyone being pretty bullish. And we were talking about ceding commissions on reinsurance deals going up year on year most of the time and everyone having a very favourable view about that underlying book. How things change.
Bill O’Farrell
Oh, definitely. I think. I think it's clear that's part of the reason when I was making the decision to leave as Chief Reinsurance Officer at Chubb, I had really good insight into where the market was and where pricing was and it felt like there was going to be a shift.
In that and develop in those years. And it was a good time to get in the industry with fewer competitors and less clear on who the successors would be at those competitors in the business.
And so with some of those, we've had some troubles. I mean, things periodically bubble over in legacy, of course. But they probably had more, let's say from a newsflow perspective, perhaps more negative stories than we've had for quite a long time. What do you think is likely to be the result of that?
Is it consolidation, that kind of thing? Or the kind of huddling together for warmth in the cold climate?
Bill O’Farrell
I think I don't know if there needs to be further consolidation in the space today. I think a lot of the players have thinned out for sure and there is less competition at the higher end.
We see ourselves as one of the markets that our distribution partners are regularly in touch with and I think we see most transactions, but you can definitely see on the deals there are fewer markets and I think and it seems to be the market’s a little more rational on how they're approaching it. So I'm not sure there's going to be more consolidation. It's always a possibility. I mean, scale is a benefit to the business.
But there's a lot of issues that make it difficult to consolidate just like there is in M&A in the regular insurance industry, it's also the same in the run-off industry. So I think Premia remains a stable and dependable market. And I'm I think we're in good shape
Mark Geoghegan
If there was consolidation, it would be you doing it?
Bill O’Farrell
Well, I think there are a few players who are in the right set to be doing that for sure. And you know we certainly have looked at transactions we helped on. You may recall Armour. We ran off the Armour for aquiline, the owner and helped sort of handle that, not quite a consolidation way, but a fee for service administration way to reduce that portfolio and close it down for them.
Mark Geoghegan
And something else has happened that in legacy we don't really have many publicly-quoted companies. Obviously we've got one quite well known one which is in the business of going private.
Do you just think that the way the legacy business is structured, do you think it just suits being a privately held company?
Not having to go to investors every quarter and explain what you're doing?
Bill O’Farrell
I think the lumpiness of the business does make it more suited for being a private company as you as you say because of that it's a sort of lumpy, right? We don't have the 1.1, 4.1, 6.1, 7.1 renewal calendar like a normal reinsurer.
So it makes it difficult to give guidance and forecast results because of that lumpiness. That said, there are lots of businesses that are lumpy that are public, that have done well and performed well. And so I don't think it's a binary and I certainly think you could have a public reinsurer that's focused on the legacy space.
But if you sort of get to, what's it best suited for? I would agree. Best suited for private markets.
Mark Geoghegan
It's difficult to analyse and especially if you spend all day looking at live markets and you're saying,well, where's the combined ratio, where's this? Where's that and what am I supposed to be looking at? I don't know. How do I know when they're doing well or not? It's very difficult. It's a different skill and it's not one that necessarily many people in the analysts’ or the financial journalist community have.
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, it's a niche within a niche, right? Which makes it difficult for a lot of people to know a lot about people that will struggle with knowing about reinsurance. And then you get into the legacy market within the reinsurance business. It is a small community.
Mark Geoghegan
The last time I did an episode with anyone from the legacy space was probably about 18 months ago and maybe two years ago now in fact.What's interesting about legacy is that you seem to have a very different investor pool than the live market does and that therefore you can have a completely different kind of investment cycle and investment view of your sector or your sub-sector. Your special sector within the sector, than the live insurance market does.
I always found that fascinating. The last time I checked in, it was almost we were at a time when investors in the live market were kind of on strike and not going to be giving any new capital to the industry until it sorted itself out at the very least.
But actually they were we're very, very happy to be giving funding to the legacy side of the business in fact. So it was a kind of hard market in funding for the live market and a soft-ish or anyway very pliant and very happy market willing and ready to invest with lots of capital available to invest in the in the legacy market.
Where do you think we are now? Obviously in the live market I can report on that but.
Where we are in terms of the willingness and appetite for investors in legacy, if you if you had a really big deal and you knew you would need new funding, another Sidecar or maybe even new equity, would you be able to go and get it easily?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, I think so, what you need a good runway to sort of be able to see when you need that capital and how to deploy it. I think we've and we've turned down capital and we get a fair amount of reverse inquiry into Premia and do we need capital and what are our capital plans.
So I'm confident every time we try to go out and raise capital, we've had a lot of interest and our disciplined track record is supportive of that.
I think the market out there, just like it is for the live business, demands performance and wants good returns. And so you have to be able to deliver on those things, but I think that the capital is there for Premia, for the right opportunities.
Mark Geoghegan
And what about the global macroeconomic situation? Obviously it's the first time.
Now we can sit and save almost for the first time in 20 years that we've got risk free returns are available to us, which should be a good thing. How do you view that in the in the legacy market, it looks it's gotta be a good thing, right?
Bill O’Farrell
It is a good thing. Yeah, I think it's really a good thing for our clients in particular, right, if you think about we value transactions on a present-value basis. So as opposed to a nominal basis you know that having real interest rates allows us to discount at higher amounts, which is good for our clients.
And so that is a boon for us and for our clients. And in a world where now equity has a real price, debt is a bit more.
The efficiency of the of doing a reinsurance transaction is much more appealing than it's ever been.
Mark Geoghegan
Yeah, it was much worse. Much better than when there was negative interest rates. And you're sort of charging up front to take away something and now, there is a prospect of giving of having to part with less, less cash than you would have had to before.
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, for the ceding companies that ability to pay a present value of the number is certainly appealing. You know, it depends on what accounting standard they're on, but in US GAAP, it's generally they're on a nominal basis. In Europe it tends to be more discounted depending on where you are.
But still it matters to the clients on making sure that transaction makes sense and they get that that built in present value just amount is part of the pricing. Now you have to charge more volatility around their carry number and all that, but it does improve the the pricing environment for clients.
Mark Geoghegan
I'm always having innovators on this show. I'm trying to catch up with whatever's new.
Legacy is in itself part of the innovation of this, this great insurance ecosystem that we're all part of.
There was a time when it was a new thing and certainly standalone legacy companies with a brand and with nice offices - that was something that happened in my insurance career.
And it's a very positive thing and some are now an alternative career path within insurance. What sort of innovations are you expecting to be coming down the track within legacy?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah. So just on your first point, I do think it is an interesting time. And I think Premia as an example of that where we are a group of individuals who have been successful in the insurance and reinsurance space.
And we've decided to focus our careers on the legacy market as opposed to we ended up in the legacy market.
Mark Geoghegan
Yeah, it used to be that there was a retired, semi-retired underwriter who was eking out the last few years before they could collect their pension. That was my first experience as a young broker kind of going to do an endorsement on a very long defunct policy, that kind of thing, you know, and that was my first experience was a bit dusty and a bit kind of not a glamorous career path, but perfectly nice way of making a living, but not something you would necessarily recommend to your children.
Whereas now you go into a legacy company and it looks just like a live company. It's got bright, nice offices, bright working space. It looks like a happy place to be, you know, and there's a lot going on. It feels quite dynamic and it's just completely chalk and cheese compared to what it was.
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, I think the talent we've assembled is as good as any in the space.
And so we're happy and we think that is where the market should be, right? But getting back to your point on innovation, I guess what I would say there are two areas where I see innovation coming down the Pike and they're a bit related.
But one is the market in the legacy space has always been a one-off transactional market and I think you're going to see more repeat deals because the clients are talking about them and we're interested in them and it goes to Capital Management tool is having a repeatable business model, right? So you end up doing a deal with a client who says I'm going to put in for example
2014 to 2019 and then every year after that I will roll in another year, for example, of my casualty portfolio and we'll just continue to do that as a way to have a constant way of capital relief and in both sides have these guard rails around how that transaction will be done.
But I think it will be a much more repeatable business going forward.
Mark Geoghegan
Wow, so much more like a like a continual contract. Well, I mean, presume you're not signing up for a multi year deal, but you're almost having a memorandum of understanding that you will have.
Mark Geoghegan
And it's a partnership kind of model as well, isn't?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. So it's not a guarantee that they're gonna write the next year for anybody, but it's an understanding that that's the intent and everybody's operating to add that next year into the programme. The other side of that, which I think is somewhat related, is you see in the ILS market that they start to move into the casualty space. One of the things the ILS investors are going to want, just like they want in the property cat space, is an exit strategy and I think the legacy market provides those tails investors an exit strategy is a movement in the casualty space and that ability to quote those at the end of their term is an important step in expanding the ILS investors’ appetite for casualty business.
Mark Geoghegan
Yeah. And with those are those likely to be almost sort of pre-loaded that they know what the exit cost is going to be up front for often these typical two or three-year deals for example?
Bill O’Farrell
I think it's difficult to guarantee the price upfront, but you can guarantee a methodology on how you reach the price upfront
Mark Geoghegan
Right, at this percentage of outstanding, etc? That kind of stuff?
Bill O’Farrell
That will be some view on how you're going to come up with determining what the remaining ultimate is and then how you discount that back and result and that will that will be will be agreed.
Mark Geoghegan
That's interesting. Kind of like a portfolio. You know, when you have, when you come off a proportional treaty, there's that Portfolio in-out segment of that agreement that say I didn't always understand when I was a placing broker. But you said that you really understand it when you do the portfolio in-out. Then it means a lot.
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, Mark, I think that's a good example of sort of the idea of it is right. And I think that is for these investors who are like, I don't want to be in the casualty business forever or I want to be in the casualty business for a set number of years that'll be important to them. And I think it will be transformational frankly to the space.
Mark Geoghegan
That's really interesting, particularly as they're getting into all sorts of, we've only got cyber cat bonds and of more pure liability cat bonds as well. And you'll be their ability to have that liquidity and to take their profits, well, hopefully profits.
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, whether it's in cat bond, form or just in a quota-share collateralized treaty or however it's done, there's a lot of different formats that a lot of those ILS investors participate in and we can we can provide a solution for them on the back end of that.
Mark Geoghegan
Anything else coming down the line
Bill O’Farrell
I think on the innovation side, those are those are the two areas I see sort of that in the more attainable time period.
Mark Geoghegan
Let's go back to that first one. It would mean, yes, that you're going to be more likely have your roster of your preferred partners then, aren't you at that point?
And I suppose then that would also mean that some of the people that are not your preferred partners probably are going to be preferred partners of somebody else?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, I'm hopeful that we don't exclude anybody in these conversations, but the idea of it is, is to set up a, at the end of the day it's a Capital Management tool. And I think people are viewing that more and more as an important piece of their Capital Management tool as legacy space that if I look back at this I'd.
Place Cat Bonds in 2006, right? So if I had to think about the time when I was doing that back in the market, it doesn't feel like legacy is too different from that where we are becoming more recognised in the market. It's not viewed as just alternative capital.
That's out there. I think you have much more mainstream companies using it. And I think at the end of the day, just like Cat Bonds are today, you will have most of the major companies looking at legacy transactions as a way to frankly become less capital intensive on their business, take business that they've already written and recycle that capital into their new business.
And in today's environment, that is that's really attractive.
You have what a business looks like. It's a high teens RoE Business Today versus the back years. And if you can take some of that capital out and recycle it in, it's very appealing and I think that ability to continue to do that over and over will be more attractive to companies as we move forward.
Mark Geoghegan
That's really interesting because yes, if you can make those numbers work, their rating, if they're a public company, for example, will go up. Their rating amongst analysts, their price to book rating will improve and it will pay for itself in many ways, I would have thought, but also actually on that lighter capital structure, again, you've got a sidecar.
How far do you think legacy can go into that? Again, having a lighter capital structure itself being almost like a bit like a fund? You could be a manager of other people's money and they can be taking the capital risk against what you're doing on their behalf. Again, how far do you think that could go within legacy?
Bill O’Farrell
I think it's important to have a base capital set up and particularly as I ran the Reinsurance Security Committee at Chubb for, you know that that time period, I was always telling people you had.
To have $500 million of capital in your company to be on our approved list or to do a transaction with us. And so I feel like I myself should have to live by those sorts of rules and we've operated on a view that was where we started out a minimum of $500 million of capital.
But I do think there is the ability to find other ways to bring capital in that you know is less permanent and more fit to purpose on a particular transaction. And I think there will be definitely institutional investors, family offices that look at those things as attractive opportunities to do and we will take advantage of that when the market opportunities arise.
Mark Geoghegan
That's really interesting because I suppose it's what you said at the beginning that it's hard to go and sell finality if you don't have any capital of your own people say, well, hang on a minute, where's your money bags?
I wanna go and look at your bank vault and actually touch your gold bars and your gold bullion to see that you've got capital.
And I can, this is a very important part of what you're doing in giving me finality.
So we're not going to end up with a sort of the legacy equivalent of an MGA?
Bill O’Farrell
No, I think it's important to have that. That promise to pay has some real support behind it.
And , we think that cutting that too thin is not the way the industry should be reacting. And bigger deals require bigger balance sheets and we tend to focus on the larger transactions, so it's appropriate to have better capitalization.
Mark Geoghegan
I couldn't be sitting in 2024 without asking you about AI and what's been amazing about artificial intelligence is it seems to have applications all over the place.
I've people who have come on the show and spoke about the applications within claims. Do you see any applications within the legacy space and obviously capital allocation, all sorts of things. Are you experimenting with it and finding anything you can use it for?
Bill O’Farrell
We're experimenting with it. We haven't broken it out of the shop yet. There's a lot of, I think, human intelligence that we can raise and bring to bear in this space that we're looking to do and try to get better at execution every day is how we work on it.
But you know, we do see in that space. I would agree that claims is a fantastic area to explore.
I think reinsurance processing and administration is an area that, getting those headcounts in that area, AI is well suited for that. And then just due diligence is generally as you go through big books of business and being able to perform some of that Is an important area that I think all three of those areas claims reinsurance and due diligence generally are right for AI initiatives.
Mark Geoghegan
Yeah, because it'd be great to have something. Yeah, particularly when you're looking at a new book and you're being offered a new book, a substantial book with lots of claims in it. You know, if you could let loose, some sort of indefatigable agent to go and read all those claims files, that would be pretty good wouldn't it?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, I think there are some people who are working on that today, we're looking at adding that to our arsenal to help in those scenarios. So I think there is there's real application for that in our space.
Mark Geoghegan
What about litigation as well? I mean, it might be again as something to go through your book and say, well, actually, you know, these are the ones I think you should definitely defend forever and fight these claims all the way to the Supreme Court if you have to.
And these are the ones which I think actually you're probably far better off settling them now. And this is what I recommend kind of thing.
Do you think that's a possibility?
Bill O’Farrell
Yeah, I do. In fact, in our service business, we actually have a tool called Claim Savvy. It does a little bit of that. It helps the people identify claims and valuations and I do think the industry needs to get more sophisticated and planning for trial and preparing for that and .
Figuring out ways to get things like, jury verdict research done at a cheaper cost and do it more often because we tend to only pull that out on mock juries when it’s a bet the farm case and I think there's a lot more opportunity to employ that if you can do it at a less expensive way to help the industry.
So I think there's a lot of opportunity in that on handling litigation and claims more generally for sure.
Mark Geoghegan
Bill. I think I've run through my list of questions. It's been really great having on the show and seeing a big smile on your face, which is good. It's good.
I want my legacy partner to have a smile on their face, you know, not too big a smile obviously! But you know, a good healthy smile!
And I want to see them looking optimistic and happy about the future and on all of the finality they've given me on all the things I've already given them.
So you're looking really well on it, Bill.
Bill O’Farrell
Thank you, Mark. It's something I love to talk about. So I appreciate the opportunity to join you today and go through this.
It's exciting times and the legacy market I think has lots of opportunity ahead of us. And I think I think the market for Premia and legacy generally is an important space for the industry and a real value creator for us and for our industry brethren.
Mark Geoghegan
Well, long may it continue Bill. I really appreciate it and thanks very much for coming on the show.
00:37:03 Bill O’Farrell
Thank you.
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